SDOS Episode 49 – How To Play With Your Dog with Craig Ogilvie

Episode 49 – How to play with your dog with Craig Ogilvie

There’s not often we get someone on the show who is as passionate about playing with dogs as Dom, but Craig Ogilvie is one of them. Craig has taken interaction with his dogs to a whole new level by making himself the toy. Today Craig spills the beans on what Mondioring is, why he gets up 4.30 (in the morning) on workshop days, why is Grandad was the inspiration for a career with dog and why you need oto be the toy if you want your dog to really enjoy playing with you.

Mentioned in this episode

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Dom:     Hello everybody, and welcome to episode 49 of the Super Hero Dog Owner’s show. We are still in Alex’s car-

Alex:      It is fitting.

Dom:     The Darkest Hour is upon us. Have you seen that yet?

Alex:      No! I haven’t actually.

Dom:     Very good. We can talk about it this week.

Dom:     Yeah. Great film. What have you been watching lately?

Alex:      I’ve been watching this new show on Netflix, and it’s weird. It started with all ten seasons out there, a little Friends. Have you heard of it?

Dom:     Yes, I’ve heard of Friends.

Alex:      I’ve just been watching Friends.

Dom:     I’ve seen them all so many times. I could play the part. I don’t know which one I wanna be. Don’t answer that. No, I haven’t been watching Friends lately, but I’m pleased that you’re enjoying it. There is new stuff on Netflix, you know.

Alex:      Is there?

Dom:     Yes. All new stuff. We’ve been watching something called The End of the Fucking World.

Alex:      Oh yeah, I’ve seen that on there.

Dom:     We binged it. Me and Beth binged it. Really good. Different. Not for kids.

Alex:      As suggested by the title, perhaps.

Dom:     Yeah! But what I really liked about it, actually, the episodes are super short.

Alex:      Okay.

Dom:     Which makes it easier to binge it obviously. They were like 20 minutes long.

Alex:      Right.

Dom:     Obviously Netflix has that clever litle counter thing where it’s like, start in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and you’re like, “Oh, we’ll watch another one!”

Alex:      Yeah, exactly.

Dom:     Before you know it, it’s one o’clock in the morning, and you’re …

Alex:      You’re through the whole series.

Dom:     Yeah, you’ve ruined the whole lot! But I like that nice, short chopped stuff. We try and do that with the dog training, too, where it’s like, we see that end of the circle. You don’t necessarily have to have an hour to play and train with your dog. You can be doing some tricks with him while you’re waiting for your tea to brew, or watch in between the adverts for watching extenders. You can be doing stuff with your dog then. Get him to do a few leave its and all these little things … That’s really been a little bit of a theme for the past couple of podcasts. All these little things, if you do them consistently and regularly enough, they all add up, you know?

Alex:      Yeah. I was just thinking that. It’s kind of similar in the last episode where we were talking about you and your books, and kind of chunking that down into little bite-size pieces.

Dom:     Yeah.

Alex:      If you approach it as this big, mammoth task, like training a dog to be a good boy, it’s like, “Oh my God. That’s such this massive task.” But whereas if you just treat it as this sequence of short, little events that come together to form-

Dom:     Yeah!

Alex:      Ten minutes of training every day, or whatever it is-

Dom:     Yeah, definitely, yeah!

Alex:      When you look at it that way, it’s like this big picture.

Dom:     Yeah, it is, isn’t it? All these ten minutes add up, don’t they?

Alex:      Exactly.

Dom:     Over time, over weeks, over months, and it all gradually contributes toward your dog looking at you more like you’re his best friend.

Alex:      Yeah.

Dom:     Playing with your dog is a bit of a theme for this podcast too, because we’ve got an interview with the rather excellent Craig Ogilvie.

Alex:      Yes.

Dom:     I’m not gonna say to which part, because he’s got quite an interesting little story that he shares in the interview, but he’s huge into play. Playing, interaction. I could see a lot of similarities with the stuff that I teach, that he’s teaching, that other people who are big fans of him as well. Without further ado, should we just dive straight into this?

Alex:      Yeah.

Dom:     Would you please press the button?

Alex:      Okay.

Dom:     My guest today is a dog trainer from Leicester. He is much in demand and is currently in the middle of a demonstration tour where he’s showing people how to play with their dogs, which is something you know I’m very passionate about as well. He was the first and only Englishman to become a licenced decoy in a dog sport called Mondioring, which we’re going to find out a little bit more in a moment. Without further ado, let’s meet the man himself and get to know Craig Ogilvie! Hello, Craig!

Craig:     Hi, Dominic, nice to see you, and I’m excited to be on the podcast. Thank you for inviting me.

Dom:     Thank you very much. I’m delighted to have you on. I really wanna hear more about you. I’ve heard some great reports. I’m looking forward to this. Speaking to the play master! Before we get into your really interesting story, we’re gonna dive in with the Greyhound round. This is a quick-fire round where we’ll get to know you a bit better and have a little bit of fun. Are you up for this?

Craig:     Yeah, okay, let’s go!

Dom:     Let’s do it. Alright, then. Are you an early bird or a night owl?

Craig:     Early bird.

Dom:     How early?

Craig:     Usually, on workshop days, somewhere between 3 and 4 AM.

Dom:     Good lord! It’s not worth going to bed!

Craig:     Huh?

Dom:     It’s not worth going to bed!

Craig:     I got to bed pretty early.

Dom:     What’s your favourite film?

Craig:     Favourite film? I don’t watch much TV, so I don’t know what I’ve watched in a long while. Probably something a little bit action-based, I would imagine. I can’t think of anything off the top of my brain.

Dom:     Okay, okay.

Craig:     no TV.

Dom:     Would you prefer to walk a West Highland Terrier in the woods, or a poodle in a park?

Craig:     West Highland Terrier in the woods, definitely.

Dom:     Okay. What swung it for you there? Is it the Terrier or the woods?

Craig:     Both the woods and the Terrier. I really, really like the Terrier’s character, as much as I like poodles as well, but the woods swung it for me more than the park.

Dom:     Okay. Good one. Red or white wine?

Craig:     I don’t drink either, so water.

Dom:     Okay. You’re favourite animal that isn’t a dog?

Craig:     I’ll probably go with something like … Oh, it’s so difficult, Dominic. I can’t think of anything else. Probably something like a wildcat. I really, really like wildcats.

Dom:     Oh, okay, cool. Nice.

Craig:     To instruct and stuff.

Dom:     We haven’t had that one so far, so well done.

Craig:     Thanks.

Dom:     What is the trick that you like practising  the most often with your dogs?

Craig:     Probably the Snake. It was one of the first tricks that I learned when I was a little boy with my granddad, and it’s something that I do all of the time, which I really, really enjoy. So probably the Snake.

Dom:     Good stuff. Well done, mate. I’m gonna give you 8 out of 10 for that. Actually, no, only 7, cause we did too much with the favourite animal. But it’s not a competition! It’s just a bit of fun, alright? I know dog trainers get a bit competitive. Alright, buddy. Let’s start at the beginning then. Before you were a dog trainer, you just mentioned your grandfather there. What was life like growing up for you with dogs, when you were a kid?

Craig:     When I was a little boy, I’ve always lived, up until my late teens, with my mum, my granddad, and my Nan. And my granddad was the person I spent the most time with when I was a youngster. He was a police dog handler, so he was part of the police when I was born. I spent a lot of time with him. He was my hero growing up. He was a policeman, and he had a dog, and he used to take me out with him from as long back as I remember. I always remember being completely obsessed by the dogs, and that’s all I wanted to do with him all of the time. I spent a lot of time with him. I think he stoked the fire of wanting to work with dogs. Working dogs in specific, but really spending the time with the dogs and him, I become captivated by their behaviour, and how you could teach them to do different things from a really young age.

Dom:     Yeah, cool. He sounds really inspiring. Is your granddad still around, or not?

Craig:     No, he isn’t, he unfortunately passed away a few years ago now, unfortunately. But I definitely-

Dom:     Still a big source of inspiration to you?

Craig:     Yeah, massively. The biggest.

Dom:     What kind of dogs did he have, then? What was …

Craig:     Always German Shepherds. I’ve always been surrounded by German Shepherds since I was younger. When he retired from the police, he still had his service dog, up until he passed away. Then we had little bit of an in between with a Labrador from Sampson, and having another German Shepherd, which is what I’m referring to again as soon as I got into my late teens.

Dom:     Cool. That’s good. We’ve had a few … You’ll have to excuse me, Craig, I’m a little bit distracted today because we just took delivery of this dog to board, which you can see is causing chaos. I like to ask dog trainers this question because obviously people think we know all the answers when we’re dog trainers. More often than not, we don’t. We’ve made all the mistakes that everybody else makes as well. Can you tell me some kind of embarrassing dog training story?

Craig:     An embarrassing dog training story? Probably the funniest one that I’ve ever experienced was when I was working for the police as a full time civilian trainer. I was taking a basic course, that’s the introduction from a new hand, and working his way all the way up to being an operational police dog handler. We were training one day and the gentleman had his dog next to him with his tracking line, and harness on. He was sitting there talking to me for the debrief of the track, and we were talking about how it’ll go. One of the things I said to him was at the end, we really need to get the dog a little bit more stimulated by play.

I was talking to him through the steps, which we talked about already, but there’s a lot of new information for the guys so they become just a little bit more focused on the technicalities rather than the play and engagement, which is something I was really big on, the reward structure at the end. As I said that, he threw the ball out to one side for the dog to fetch and bring back to him, which wasn’t exactly what I’d asked him to do, but hey. He chucked the ball out to one side, but unbeknown to him, the tracking line had wrapped around his feet. He weighed probably 33, 34 kilos, an adolescent German Shepherd. So he chucked the ball quite a distance, and it wrapped around his feet, and all of the sudden, the guy went completely horizontal up in the air, and was dragged across there, because obviously the dog was in a harness, and he’s super comfortable and being conditioned to pull into it nicely, and happy to do so. So the job of the handler made absolutely no difference as well. Being the instructor, I don’t suppose I was supposed to laugh, but I did my best to hold back the laugh and to make sure.

Dom:     I bet you wish you caught it on video as well.

Craig:     I think it would have been a huge, huge hit, definitely.

Dom:     Brilliant. Good story. Before we get into your specialty, which is playing with dogs and helping them connect with their owners through play, how does this Mondioring fit into all this? Because I’ve never heard of Mondioring until I stumbled across you.

Craig:     Okay. A little bit more about my history with being a little bit more relevant about how we worked up to Mondioring. I was always, as I said, interested in and completely captivated by dog behaviour, and working dogs as a sort aspect. When I was around 20, I met one of my mentors who’s been a big stepping stone in my life. He was a behaviourist at the time, coming into retirement at that point.

Dom:     Who was that?

Craig:     That was Mike Woods, the guy’s name.

Dom:     Cool.

Craig:     He’s a very, very big figure in my life, and taught me a lot about training dogs, which was really nice of him. He also competed in the sport working Dorns, and I always wanted one foot into the door with working dogs. He threw his introductions in different people, and I started to become interested in the biting portion of the police dog training, because that’s something I’d always been really interested in with my granddad. We’re going to detain a criminal, let go, find a criminal in different places, which was really interesting for me. I started to become really interested, and watching videos from abroad, because in Europe, the art of being a decoy is much more so than it’s sort of considered in the UK. It’s a real art form in teaching dogs to bite in a really nice, happy way, which I’ve become really interested in.

Through meeting different people, I then met another one of my mentors, John, who I was very, very luck to meet, because he actually took me into the Mondioring world. I was able to travel with him consistently to France. I went over to France, and the first time we went to a small club in Dunkirk, which is just off of where the tunnel is. He took me there with the intention for the guys to teach me how to be an assistant or a decoy wearing the costume.

At that point, I really caught the bug. I went there, and rather than the stereotypical sleeves that the guys wear in the UK, it was a full costume that the dogs were ripping onto. It was just a completely different ball game, but for me, it was so exciting for the dogs. I’d become completely obsessed by it very quickly.

The sport consists of obedience, agility, and suspect apprehension. Very, very similar to the police dog programme. Watching the guys abroad, and training in that first, they obviously fel I had a little bit of a flair for, of the rhythm, to teach the dogs to grip onto the costume nicely, and the rhythm to catch them, and to implement the techniques. That was it, really, from that point on I just became completely obsessed and travelled to France, probably between two times most months with John, competing and training. Really learning all of the techniques to teach the dogs to bite the costume. It was through teaching the dogs to bite into the costume, Dominic, that to me, really, really grasped into the theory of play, because the way that I am with the dogs is very playful and joyful. I learned that I could produce really, really good results by making a friend of the dog when they were biting onto the costume.

Effectively, in all of the work that I’d done previously, my own back and a little bit of showing, playing with dogs with tug toys, ball and ropes, tea towels, I adjusted that then. Really, the costume is juts a big tug toy for the dogs-

Dom:     Yeah.

Craig:     To grip onto, the movements. I really found that once a dog really started to enjoy the engagement with the costume, that they were completely putty in my hands. I could get them to do near enough anything, because they were so captivated by what I had to offer them. You could get them to perform any behaviours, really nice form with lots of motivation, and the gusto that came with it was really interesting.

It worked particularly well with the younger dogs, but as I started to get more involved in my training, I found that it worked just as well with the older dogs that [inaudible 00:14:51] previous training, and in a very short period of time. I then started as I was training for my licence in Mondioring, which took around 18 months of travelling to and fro, studying the theory part of the exam, as well as all the technicalities of the sport, and then also getting very, very fit for the physical part of the test.

I started to implement the techniques that I was using abroad to teach the dogs to grip onto the costume, with some of the people I was working with behaviorally and sports-wise. Really motivating the dogs and changing them. That’s where it really got to me that if you could create an experience for the dog, rather than being the producer of something … I’ve seen lots of dogs previously that had tonnes and tonnes of toy drive, or article drive. They wanted the toy or the article, it wasn’t the handler-

Dom:     Yeah.

Craig:     That they wanted. Through teaching the dogs to grip onto a costume, it was the interaction with me, as well as the costume, that made me become completely captivated by them. I’m really just starting to introduce it into my world, which worked really, really well. I’ve been asked to do a motivational seminar in the UK for Chile people. It was the first session was for an agility group, and it all just spiralled from there. Working with the dogs, lifting them up into a super stimulating state as we would do in the sport world. Then really, for me, teaching the owners how to communicate with the dogs whilst I was stimulating.

That’s really just as big a mission for me as becoming the centre of the dogs world, because I see so many dogs that have got problems that are predicated from being stimulated, or performing behaviours in heightened levels of stimulation, and if it boils down to the meat and vegetables of it, it’s not the dog’s fault. It’s not the handler’s fault. They just haven’t practised with communicating with the dogs when they’re stimulated. That’s a lot of my work now, and that’s how it all derived from Mondioring.

Dom:     Brilliant. Really cool story. It’s amazing. Different dog trainers that I speak to, and myself, and my mentors, everyone’s gone on a slightly different journey to get to that point of finding their mission and finding their why, and what they love doing, and how they love helping people. We all just want to help people to have a bit more fun with their dogs, don’t we? Have a bit more control.

Craig:     It’s a different journey that you take [crosstalk 00:17:23] particularly, why I’m obsessed with behaviour as I said at the beginning. That’s what really, really got me, and then as I started to work with the sports side of things. It’s really strange to me how the sports side of things has channelled back into motivation and working on the bigger picture for the handlers, which is fantastic.

Dom:     Yeah.

Craig:     It’s excellent seeing the results that it produces, in so many different aspects of the dog world. I work with competition people that are really keen on getting their dogs motivated, more snapping performance, and building the motivational working relationship to keep their dogs performing in really, really top level in performing competition. Then I meet people who have got their pet dogs, where they just want to build a better relationship and focus on becoming the centre of their dog’s world.

Dom:     Yeah, definitely. There’s lots of applications, isn’t there, particularity to what you’re doing. Let’s stick with the pet dog owners for a minute, because our audience is mainly pet dog owners anyway. I sometimes think that … certainly this was the case for me when I first learned about dog training and how to play and motivate … Sometimes the dog owner can feel a bit apprehensive about playing with the dog a but, whether they’re self-conscious of it, or they’re just frightened that their dog might not like them very much, as much as a nother dog or whatever. Have you got some simple techniques for pet dog owners, just to help them to build their confidence and interact a little bit with their dogs?

Craig:     Certainly. What I look for in all the workshops and all the different engagements I do, if I’ve got a dog and their owner in front of me, what I’m trying to find immediately is the dog’s primary driver. What is their primary reinforcer that they like more than anything else in the world? A lot of dogs … I see hundreds and hundreds of dogs, and with a lot of dogs, they have the natural desire to chase. That chase reflex that they’ve got inside them. What I really want to do is to captivate that. I don’t want the dog to show that desire when it’s down at the park and it sees a cat and it decides to chase after it. Or it’s in the woods and it sees a deer and it wants to chase after that. I want to try to captivate that excitement back to the handler.

The first thing that I stereotypically do, is I’m looking for how the handler and the dog interact. Is he comfortable with mom? Is he comfortable with dad? Is he down for affection? Is there a little bit of anxiety there? That usually dictates the technique that I’m gonna use to begin with. If I’ve got a dog that’s relatively confident, isn’t struggling too much with environmental awareness, or worried about what’s going on around it, what I’ll generally do is just get the owner walking a little bit so the dog gets a little bit loose and they’re happy. They’re nice and warmed up, get their mind settled a little bit. What I’m looking to do is to get onto that front of the chase. Try to get the dog to elicit that chase response out of them.

The way that I do that, as I say, varies. The easiest way, generally, is to get yourself some type of a chaser toy, which are readily available on the Internet. What I usually do at that point, is I’ll ask the dog into a very basic position, either a sit or a down, sit being the preference so the dog doesn’t start to sniff on the floor as we ask them into the position. I’ll then take my toy nice and high up to my chest, so that the dog sees it there. We usually get a little bit of interest at that point. I try to avoid excessive vocalisation at that point. I’d rather stick to movement of the article.

I’ll then release the dog from the position, so they’re expecting a reward, and chuck to toy out to one side to see what their drive [inaudible 00:20:58] is. Generally, you’ll get a little bit of a drive toward the toy, depending on the dog that we’re working with. At that point then, I’ll usually play a little bit of a racing game over to the toy, to almost pinch the toy off of the dog. What I do at that point then is try to captivate the chasing instinct back with me. Because throwing the toy is fantastic, becomes very, very difficult to get that engagement, particularly a the beginning of your experience when you’re creating it. I’ll grab onto the toy then, and I’ll then start to move the toy ever so gently away from the dog.

The movement that we would use … the dog would be just at the top of the toy, probably give them a little bit of sniff, they’re trying to make mouth contact with it. I’ll just then get the toy moving away in a challenging way, so that I’m not giving the dog easily the opportunity to grip onto it. Nice, fluent movement, so it’s a little bit exciting. Just a little bit of a jiggle, so the toy becomes interesting as I move away.

A lot of the time, at that point, the dog will show what I call snow fox behaviour. It’ll jump and put their paws on top of it to try to stop it, and then we kep on moving it a little bit more, so the dog will then usually stereotypically think, “Oh! That’s not working,” and then they’ll go on to contact making with their mouths at that point. When the dog takes contact with the toy with their mouth, what I generally instruct the handlers to do then is to be super considerate of the dog’s energy and the amount of effort that they’re putting into the game. Usually, if the dog grips onto a toy, a handler goes into an excited rage almost. They’re gripping onto the toy, start shaking really, really erratically to get the dog to maintain it’s grip.

For me, it’s a case of creating enough tension to get the dog to take a nice firm grip on the toy, cause I want to create an experience for them. Not an overly frustrating jerk.

Dom:     Yeah.

Craig:     As the dog grips onto the toy, rather than getting the handler to pull their arms close into their body, I’ll always get them to make nice straight arms and move laterally from left and right, to keep tension on the toy. That usually starts to firm the dog’s grip up a little bit then, and we’ve got contact with the toy. Once the dog makes contact with the toy, I’m really, really big on creating an experience. I try to avoid really big jerky motions, which sometime can be not nice on the dog’s neck and shoulders. It also causes a level of frustration and sometimes will impede their grip, or give them a loose grip, or consistently letting go.

At that point, depending on the pre-judge when I’ve seen the dog before, and how he’s interacting with the handler, I’ll then instruct them to start sharing a nice bit of calm, smooth affection with them. So they’re moved, and it becomes very [inaudible 00:23:28], Dominic. This is where lots of people start laughing, because it becomes very [inaudible 00:23:33]. The way that I move with the dog is moving your feet as well as your arms, and sharing affection incrementally. The affection, for me, serves as positive reinforcement. So again, then you’re building on the experience that you’re creating with the dog.

I think when toy play comes, one of the biggest things I’ve overlooked, is first of all, the chase aspect of the game. A lot of people will try to move the toy really fluently in front of the dog’s face, or erratically in front of the dog’s face, to get them to grip onto it, which can create a level of frustration, or anxiety, and you’ll either get the dog’s grip on it, because it’s like, “Oh, get that toy away from me!” Or you’ll get the dog will go, “No, I don’t quite like that,” and then start to revert and chase, show signs of anxiety displacement. The chase is the first part.

Then, for me, when to dogs are gripping onto the toy, it doesn’t have to be a mad show, and swinging up and down and trying to get the dogs super duper stimulated by the contact, because a lot of the stimulation has come through the chase. When the dog grips onto the toy, what I try to instruct all of my guys to do, is to create an experience for the dog that’s conducive, so when we let go of the toy, their first mindset is to drive back to mom, or drive back to dad for more of the game, rather than “Oh, I’ve got the toy, I want to get out of here!”

Dom:     Yeah. That’s really interesting. You’re building the drive, but then it’s control, isn’t it?

Craig:     I’m really big on it. If you see anybody that’s been or comes to the workshops, I want to work with the dogs in a heightened level of stimulation. I want to use all of the drive that they’ve got in a positive way, so we’re working with it, rather than against it. I’m a strong believer on if the dog has got x amount of drive or desire to do something, chase drive, desire to work, it’s going to be displayed at some point. What I want to try to do is to keep all of that drive back with us, so the chase gets that. Once they’re chasing, they’re really, really stimulated and engaged with the handler. When the dog grips back onto the toy, then it becomes about the experience that you’re creating, because what it then starts to teach the dog to do, if they come more often, and they have more than one session with me, is things like they’re not to let go or releasing the toy, the motivational route. They start to love to let go of the toy as part of the game.

Then focusing heightened levels of stimulation. Impulse control, so the dog isn’t just jumping up to grip onto the toy when they please. That becomes a big part of the dog being happy in and around their zone, when they’re gripping onto the toy. They don’t like, “Oh, now you’re going to take the toy off of me, I’m going to get away with it.” The toy just becomes a bridge for the experience that the handler creates.

Dom:     That’s brilliant, because it is hard. Obviously dogs have teeth … sharp teeth, strong jaws. We wanna try and utilise … we want them to try and be dogs and to use their strengths and their special talents, but in a way that doesn’t mean we have holes in our arms and hands. Obviously the toy is the thing that does that, isn’t it?

Craig:     It becomes a bridge for that. One of the questions that I got asked many years ago now, was a lady that was really, really excellent in her field. Really, really good dog trainer. She asked me as part of a speaking engagement, “Why do you feel it’s so necessary to use a toy for engagement purposes?” At the time, there was six practical dogs I was working with on the day, and it just so happened there was a big, fluffy 18 month German Shepherd in the working area. I said, “I’ll show you.” I’d already worked with the dog, so he’s super comfortable with me, really, really wanted to play with me. I said, “I’m gonna start to interact with him physically,” and I’m leaning down with my hand. We started to share affection with him, smooth him. Spider fingers, as I call it. He started to get really, really excited, and he was absolutely loving the engagement. And I said, just at that point, “Any minute now, he’s going to bite me.” And just one cue, the dog went, thunk! Not out of malice, because he was using his mouth in the same ways I was using my hands.

Dom:     Yeah.

Craig:     As a deficit, if you like, in our opinion … All stimulation, he gripped onto me. Not in his, because he doesn’t understand what’s wrong. It’s just a natural behaviour that’s performed as the dog starts to become stimulated. I see lots of issues building because we get stimulated dogs that become frustrated, and then redirection of that becomes contact with their mouth. Sometimes it’s the lead, but sometimes, as natural as a human being that doesn’t have experience working with dogs extensively, as the dog goes up for the lead and their arms away, and the dog ends up making contact with their arm, because it makes it every difficult for them to differentiate. Channelling all of that drive, which is likely going to be displayed at some point, onto a toy or an article, and teaching the dog that this is what we grip onto, and then putting control and understanding into that in a really, nice, positive, friendly way for the dog makes alk of the sense in the world. For both competitive handlers, and just people that love and enjoy working with their pets.

Dom:     Yeah, definitely. Super cool, and thanks for that little breakdown too of the process. That was really good. There’s definitely stuff that you could take out of that, just playing with your dog in the sitting room. Just to get bit of engagement going. What’s the best advice you’ve ever been given, Craig?

Craig:     Hard work and dedication. That’s probably how I live my life completely. I’m very addicted and obsessive with what I do for a living. I just love it, Dominic. I can’t help it, as I said in the introduction. Early hours of the morning, almost every day. Hit the gym before work, and then just carry on all day on the journey with people who I’m working with, dogs with behavioural problems, or whether I’m going to the workshops, or I’m consulting online as part of my coaching. It’s just hard work and dedication is probably the best advice I’ve ever been given.

Dom:     Yeah, fantastic. I can’t disagree with that. So what have you got coming up for the second half of 2017?

Craig:     I’m completely booked up into next year now, so it’s a mix and match between … there’s a lot of workshops. I’m in the UK a lot. I’ve got some overseas appointments as well. I’m going to Cyprus and Jersey, I believe, later on in the year. I travel extensively, because it’s all over the UK that I’ve been doing the workshops.

Dom:     Yeah.

Craig:     Working with both sport handlers and pet handlers from different genres and different people that are doing different things. I also do quite a bit of work with dog trainers as well, teaching them how to interact and engage with classes an class environments. I just had a really good speaking engagement with the Institute of Dog Trainers-

Dom:     Yep.

Craig:     Which was just a couple of weeks ago, so that was really exciting. A nice speaking engagement with all the up and coming [inaudible 00:30:27] of trainers, which was excellent. Yeah, it’s an exciting time.

Dom:     Superb. Where can people go to find out more about you and what you’re up to?

Craig:     If you’d like to get in contact with me, friend me on Facebook. Craig Ogilvie on Facebook. That’s Craig, C-R-A-I-G. O-G-I-L-V-I-E. On Facebook.

Dom:     I can verify that, because that’s how I contacted you as well.

Craig:     If you’d like to get in contact, just drop me a direct message. I’m also on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at Craig Ogilvie Dog Training, which all of the things I’m very active on all of them. If you wanted to drop me an email,

Dom:     Cool.

Craig:     In the contact

Dom:     Have you got a website as well where people can check out your book and stuff?

Craig:     Yes. Positive Animal Solutions is the best way to check out the book. That’s the interactive play guide. If you go onto my website there’s a direct link to it there, so you can check it out. There’s also a nice introduction, a little bit of a video. They’re talking all about the system and how we can implement it, how they help your dog, and help you change the way that you interact with your dog, and really start to position yourself as the centre of their world.

Dom:     Superb. We’re all for that here. That’s fantastic. Thanks very much, Craig.

Craig:     Thank you, Dominic. It’s been an absolutely pleasure. Really enjoyed it. Thank you for inviting me.

Dom:     No worries, man. I’ll speak to you soon.

Craig:     Yeah, see you soon, Dominic.

Dom:     So, Alex?

Alex:      Yes, Dom?

Dom:     How awesome was that?

Alex:      That was great. He’s such a cool guy.

Dom:     Different, too. I’m gonna add that I had no idea until I stumbled across him that that kind of sport existed.

Alex:      No, definitely not.

Dom:     He’s got a nice little niche going there, hasn’t he? Something that we talked about in last week’s thing.

Alex:      That’s true.

Dom:     It’s just really interesting how my sort of dog training journey with John Rogerson, David Davies … a lot of the people that we speak to on the podcast are all players at the centre of all the good stuff, isn’t he?

Alex:      As it should be, yeah.

Dom:     Yeah, definitely. It’s more fun for you, it’s more fun for the dog. Definitely check out Craig. His book’s out now, I think. You can also check out my book, too. One of my books. This is How to be a Dog Super Hero: Transform your Dastardly Dog Using the Power of Play. If you want a book that’s going to teach you how to do a sit or a down with your dog, or a stay, or obedience in general, this book isn’t it. Although we do teach those things in the book. This is a book to help you to enjoy your dog more. To have more of a relationship with him, so he looks at you like you’re his best friend. His best friend, and he wants to be with you, and he enjoys being with you, and he chooses to be with you, rather than wanting to be with that other dog over there or that pizza that’s underneath the bench, that sport of thing. Hopefully, if you get this book, read it, check it out, go to if you wanna download a free chapter of the book. You can sign up there for my daily emails as well.

If you’re a dog trainer, a dog groomer, or a dog walker, you can get Walk Yourself Wealthy. In fact, you can get them both. You can get this book on Amazon or Audible, and you can get it from too, which is my other website.

That’s it for this week, Alex. Next week we’re gonna be going back up north and speaking to our very good friend Rebecca Ashworth.

Alex:      Excellent, cool.

Dom:     Rebecca recently did her second Northeast Dog Festival, which you videoed, I spoke at, we had a stand, absolutely brilliant day.

Alex:      Yes, it was awesome.

Dom:     Whilst we were with Rebecca, we did some agility, didn’t we? With little Sidney, she did the master class for my inner circle. We recorded a bit for the podcast too, so we’re going to be talking to Rebecca next week about doing some agility and having fun with your dog. And obviously the Northeast Dog Festival as well.

Alex:      Brilliant, sounds good to me.

Dom:     Cool. We’ll see you then, and if we don’t see you through the week, we’ll see you through the window.

Meet the Author

Dom Hodgson